Mormons believe a con artist is a prophet who found golden plates in NY
Mormon beliefs were started by Joseph Smith, a convicted con artist, from Palmyra, New York, who allegedly found golden plates, which he translated to become the Book of Mormon. He claimed in 18 + different accounts 18 different reasons for finding the plates, but the official church reason is that God the father, who has a body of flesh and bones, told him all churches were an abomination and he must restore the true gospel. A few years later, before completing the translation, but after this alleged first vision, Joseph Smith joined one of these abominable churches. Why would he do that?
When someone stole his first translation, he was unable to retranslate it again, and instead provided a “different version” because “God told him to” after a 6 month + hiatus from translating. Nobody has ever “seen the plates” except with their “spiritual eyes.” Also a single artifact or scientific evidence verifying the Book of Mormon has never been found.
Joseph Smith also started his own army and declared himself king of the world. Narcissim much?
By: Janice
That would be an interesting description if it were actually 100% accurate.
1. Joseph was never arrested or convicted of fraud charges.
2. There were not 18 different accounts of the First Vision or of the plates.
3. Several people saw and held the physical plates, and gave account of their experience with the plates.
4. Joseph had access to the Nauvoo Militia, yet he didn’t use it to save himself from Carthage Jail. Instead he gave himself up willingly to prevent neighboring militias from invading Nauvoo. Joseph Smith said, “whether I am willing to lay down my life for my brethren. If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a “Mormon,” I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves.”
Not much narcissism there.
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LikeDislikeMormon Founder Arrest Records Found
Newly discovered documents link Mormon founder to crimes
By Jeffrey Morse
Sun Staff Writer
NORWICH – County historians have rediscovered historical records proving the founder of the Mormon Church was arrested on several occasions while living in Chenango County. The papers turned up after a three decade absence, and may prove to be the most historically significant discovery in the modern history of the area. The documents, which have recently been turned over to the Chenango County
Historical Society, include legal bills from separate charges filed against Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church, now the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS). The religious founder, the bills show, was arrested three times in the county between 1826 and 1830. County Historian Dale Storms said the cases involved Smith’s involvement in “glass looking,” or searching for treasure, and “being a disorderly person.”
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LikeDislikeAre either of those charges for Fraud? Or could they have been erroneous charges that really don’t mean anything. Disorderly because he didn’t take a mob beating? Those two charges your article mentions are laughable at best!
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LikeDislikeYou don’t think that pretending that you have magic stones that will help you find treasure is not fraudulent? It’s not only fraudulent, but it’s pretty insane, too. Who does that?
What’s laughable is the insanity… His story is this: Joseph Smith was praying in the woods when Satan (the brother of Jesus) tried to stop him. Both God and Jesus showed up, sort of like Batman and Robin, and Jesus told him not to join any church since they were all wrong. Then an angel came into his room 3 years later and told Joseph, this little treasure hunter, about a book that was written on gold plates. He found them in this stone box, which he couldn’t take, so he had to come back on the same day, each year for 4 years. Then he could take the plates and he translated them using scribes who were not allowed to see the plates.
And this is not even the craziest part…
Glass looking IS fraud!And, yes he was convicted.
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LikeDislikeThanks my friend but
Why do people complain for things they are not concern of while they themselves do not carry to there life a little good that Mormons have? They speak of race, garments, funds, priesthood, temples, Godhood etc. every now and then, What do you anti-Mormons have instead?
Look here, What African leaders do to their people if not exploiting their own people?. Why aren’t they being civilized if not that they are of low race? ( or rather cursed?) Why don’t you Leave God accomplish his purpose on things he planed including your Owen selves? I myself am an African and feel good about the Mormon Doctrine. Remember without segregation there is no growth, and Agency is a law of Heaven, Without good there is no bad. God will chose amongst us who were real people and who were just a people.
What is bad about God being as Man? Was Jesus not a man? nor was his mother a woman? What is wrong with you people of low mind who can not reason along with life? Why do you think in your minds that God Just created us and he is so mindful of us and we do the very bad things you have ever head through all man-kinds life, and sill he dose not phase (wipe) us out of his face if we are not related to him? Who are you to judge GOD? Just be Good and ask God in sincerity about the Mormon Doctrine I know it is of God and Joseph Smith is and was His Prophet
Who did more that any body who lived on earth to the kingdom of God save Jesus only.And the church he organized is the only True kingdom of God on Earth today whether you like it or not. AntiMormons are dwindling in unbelief.
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LikeDislikeWe have ONE GOD who is the trinity. Father, son, Holy Ghost are one. We humans will never be Gods, never rule our own planet. We don’t believe that God was a man who was born from an unknown God and Goddess. We don’t believe that God has a wife on his planet of Kobol, either.
What we don’t have is a con-man that we blindly followed because he claimed to have found some tablets that say that God lives on a planet, is Adam, has had intercourse with the Virgin Mary, has a son, Jesus, who married his mother and 2 other women, and is a direct ancestor to this con-man.
We have Jesus Christ, our Savior, and all we have to do is believe that he is our Savior. You claim to have him, too. But your con-man has taken his teachings and turned them into something else. Sure, you mormons are all about family values, when the family believes in the fantasy that JS is a prophet.
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LikeDislikeThank you! I am a Mormon, and I am living a perfectly normal life, just like Catholics, baptists, Muslims, and atheists live lives. So why spend your time accusing us of things you don’t even know about? Have you read the Book of Mormon? Have you been to one of our Sunday meetings? If not, then why do you judge us? Yes, we do some strange things, but if you learn about us and TRY to understand, maybe you’ll gain some respect for us. We respect other religions. We don’t think that everything they teach is wrong, and we try not to make assumptions about their religion. So be considerate and respectful and please do the same. Try not to spread rumors about us and our beliefs because you don’t know them.
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LikeDislikeWe can’t understand because we weren’t BRAINWASHED since birth to believe in the FALSE PROPHET Smith! Wake up!
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LikeDislikeaccully not all mormon respect the other responsible so If you are not all the mormons the don’t say”we respect other religion”
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LikeDislikeThe Old Testament clearly states that all ppl who claim to be prophets must be 100% accurate and must consistently tell the same message..no contridiction. Joseph Smith was a fraud, an egomaniac who wanted many young women and power. His “revelations” are not biblical and do not have anything to do with the real Jesus/Yeshua who was a perfect follower of the Jewish law. There is only one gospel, that which was preached by the apostles for the gentile AND the Jew who are “One New Man” in Christ Jesus. Ask God the father for the truth. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will tell you the truth if you are really honestly seeking. I am not trying to put anyone down but when I see a lie that I know is keeping ppl from the glory of knowing the one true God and our precious Lord and Savior, it is my duty to speak up. I am no Saint. I am a lover of Jesus/Yeshua – daughter of the One true “triune” God YHWH. Please, research over 300 Old Testament prophecies about Jesus and you’ll see that the New Test description of Jesus and His finished work here for us is all the truth. God bless you. P.S. I’d rather hurt someone’s feelings than co-sign something that I am absolutely sure is not of the true God. Its my butt that is responsible if I am quiet about it.
he was also killed by people who did not like him because he started a new religion and Missouri had an extermination law for mormons until the 1970s
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LikeDislikehttp://www.mrm.org/where-are-the-gold-plates
The whole religion is based on the ridiculous claim that Joseph Smith “obtained” and translated these golden plates. This link gives facts and references. The Mormon religion is a based on a bunch of made up bullshit, just like Christianity and Islam.
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LikeDislikeI concur 100%. ALL “orginized” religion was made to make people conform. I stopped believing in Santa and the Easter Bunny when I was 6. It only took another year to realize they were attatched to another invisible man.
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LikeDislikeFunny, a convicted con-man just “happens’ to find gold plates, with the convenience of a way to translate them, but nobody else sees them, then he “loses’ them! What incompetent idiot loses gold plates, with means of translation, so easily? Come on Mormons.
What I don’t understand is why most Christians believe the miracles recorded in the Bible like the parting of the Red Sea for Moses and yet believe that no such miracles can happen in our day. If there is a God, and if he is no respecter of persons, and if is he really is the same God and will always be the same God, why would he no longer wish to reveal his will to his children? Why would he want us to pray to him if he was never going to answer? Yet if he does answer, then we are receiving revelation to guide us in our lives, and thus those revelations would be the equivalent to modern day scripture.
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LikeDislikesee I think he dose do those things but people don’t pay attetion
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LikeDislikeNOW you’re talking! Most of us whose careers have been based on scientific reasoning and critical thinking are aware of the fact that ALL religions, Mormon, Christian, Muslim, etc. are a farce and a sham; always have been and always will be; and are practiced by folks who are searching for an answer but are scientifically illiterate.
I would truly listen to a debate between practicing Mormons and members of Scientology. Other than getting a good laugh, I would like to see which group is closer to people like Jim Jones and David Koresh. One thing I do have to give some kudos to the Mormons for is that when there is say a natural disaster nearby, they are there in full-force helping out. From what I understand about Scientology is that you actually have to pay, quite a large sum, for the honor of getting brainwashed. One started by a con man, the other by a science fiction writer, and I use writer, not author on purpose. Round #1 – LDS or Mormons. But I still want a pair of those magic underware. Maybe it’s the Mormon’s gods will that I be better endowed, somehow I think it’s not likely…but hey, ya never know!!!!!
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LikeDislikeI have to applaud Joseph Smith’s genius… He is one hell of a con-man! He was probably sitting around going, “The more bizarre I make this shit, the easier it will be to believe it.” He was thinking that people would say, “Hey, that shit has to be true. No one could make that up!” like the dumbasses they are.
I agree that these two cults are not too disconnected. They have the same alien bullshit explanations… I would pay good money to see 2 of them go at it.
Forget the magic underwear… I want the magic rock that finds the treasure!
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LikeDislikeWhy would a con man go willing to his death when he had all kinds of methods of escape?
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LikeDislikeJoseph Smith was a criminal with a record. He was charged and convicted of being a disorderly person and an imposter in Bainbridge, NY in 1826:
Warrant issued upon written complaint upon oath of Peter G. Bridgeman, who informed that one Joseph Smith of Bainbridge was a disorderly person and an imposter. Prisoner brought before Court March 20, 1826.
Why are mormons in such denial???
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LikeDislikeAll Mormons know that Joseph had a “criminal” record. All that is well documented in Josephs own journals. From the Mormons side of the argument it is believed that he was accused falsely. After all it is not a crime to claim that you have been visited by the Father and the Son. It is not a crime to claim to have been given holy writings by an angel. It might be a crime if he had used them to get rich at others expense or to use them to hurt others. An accurate evaluation of his life would indicate that although he was not perfect he never intentionally used those things to hurt others only to help others. Christ himself said “by their fruits you shall know them” If he really was a criminal why would he submit himself to the courts to his death when he had all the opportunity to run west or use his militia to protect himself?
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LikeDislikeHow many of those who “witnessed” either left the church or where forced out?
Answer: All of them.
Professor Charles Anton the only outsider to see a page from the fake plates, clearly and without ambiguity states in a letter the symbols shown are without any merit and complete jiberish.
Oliver Cowdery left the church and later returned. Martin Harris also returned to the church. Both of these men reiterated their witness to have seen the angel and to having held the gold plates. Martin Harris did so in his dieing breaths. I don’t know about David Whitmer except that I know of no time he denied his witness.
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LikeDislikeOliver Cowdery reported that Charles Anthon actually signed a statement that they were true characters but when he was told that Joseph had received them from an angel he took it back and tore it up saying there was no such thing as angels and revelation
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LikeDislikeThis is mostly true and I appreciate it, but sadly, Joseph Smith was arrested. He was said to be convicted of a crime, but HE WAS 100% INNOCENT! He was later shot in the Carthage jail. The government did not like the idea of him starting a new church and it being so public, so they accused him of crimes (I am not sure which ones exactly) but he did not commit any. According to amendment one, we have freedom of speech, religion, and press.
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LikeDislikeI’m a Mormon and First of all, all the charges were false. Joseph Smith along with many other church officials were arrested simply because people’s pastors told them Mormons were evil and had to be eradicated. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints calls this the “Missouri Era”, an era plagued by violence and distrust between Missourians and other people of other states and Mormons. Mormons never hated them and were simply persecuted for their beliefs, and because of their beliefs and the influence other church leaders had in government they were even convicted of preposterous charges like TREASON. So in the end, so what if there were charges and arrests? They were all false and all wrong.
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LikeDislikeAccording to Joseph Smith the Book of Mormon was made out of gold plates appx eight inches long, 6 inches wide and 6 inches thick. The plates were moved around by his wife and carried by Joseph all over the place (including a 3 mile dash while he was chased by “boogymen”. One slight problem, based on those measurements the plates would weigh around 198lbs!! Joseph was a pediophile, liar, rapist and con-man. Just like the bullshit prophet he modeled his character on, Muhammad!!
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LikeDislikeThroughout the scriptures, a Prophet is a man called of God, given authority and inspiration to carry out important responsibilities assigned. As a representative of the Most High, a prophet lives the highest degree of honor and authenticity. He is certainly not some “con man” out digging for gold.
You, my friend, are a bit misinformed. Common in mormonism so here we go:
1. Well here is an account of his arrest and trial in 1826
2. Problems with first vision http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no99.htm#Vision
3. Notably absent, missing pages.. http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/bom_early_problems/goldenbible_stolenmanuscript.htm
4. Joseph joined the Methodist church after his alleged first vision.
5. Both Martin Harris and David Whitmer said they only saw the plates with their spiritual eyes http://www.mrm.org/eleven-witnesses
6. Joseph’s boasting (very humble man isn’t he?) http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no106.htm#Boasting
Really? A bunch of websites that explain the Mormon church?
1. You have to have a trial to be convicted. Joseph Smith never had a trial.
2. The first website says that the prophet Joseph said that only Jesus was present, but in his journal he clearly says that “I saw two personages” not just one.
3. It is true that Martin Harris lost 116 pages of the Book of Mormon but the same stuff that was on those 116 pages was in the next part of the gold plates anyways because God had Mormon put it that way because he is all knowing and he knew that later, Martin Harris would lose those pages.
4. Joseph Smith did not join the Methodist church, he died as a martyr for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Carthage Jail, in Carthage Illinois.
5. Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris testified that they saw the plates physically. Maybe if you bothered to open the Book of Mormon and read the Testimony of the Three Witnesses (https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/three?lang=eng) you would understand.
6. Joseph was not boasting. He was called of God to restore the true and everlasting gospel upon the face of the earth again today. You can know this for yourself as well if you would read the Book of Mormon and gain your own testimony of Jesus Christ.
I know that this church is true. I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and that he did indeed restore the church on the earth. I know that Thomas S. Monson is the prophet today and that he receives revelation for the entire church and it is considered scripture. I know that Jesus Christ is our savior and that he lives and through His Atonement we all have the capacity to live with Him and our Heavenly Father again after this mortal life. I know these things are true in the name of Jesus Christ. AMEN.
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LikeDislikeBut please. Feel free to tell me more about what I believe. Its interesting to see how much people get wrong.
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LikeDislike(www.mormon.org)
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LikeDislikeThe bible says if one prophecy doesn’t come true, the person is a false prophet. Every mormon prophet has had a false prophecy.
Could you please quote the scripture on that on please. Also please list the false prophecy of each prophet.
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LikeDislikeJanice, I’m afraid you just don’t have your facts straight. Which is common with Mormon critics. But I’d be happy to set the record straight.
1. The 1826 glass looking trial was not a trial. It was an examination to see if a trial was warranted. There was never a verdict because a trial was never held, therefore Joseph was never convicted. http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Legal_issues/Trials/1826_glasslooking_trial
2. The First Vision accounts only have issues if you believe the people always give a verbatim account of events in their life. Do you give a verbatim account of your wedding, or you do give different details depending on the circumstances of the conversation? Even Paul gave differing accounts of his conversion on the way to Damascus. I guess Paul lied to?
3. The missing pages are a moot point. Had he re-translated the missing pages whomever had the originals would have changed the manuscript to try to discredit him. The fact that he was worried he had lost his soul for losing the pages is evidence that he wasn’t just making it up. Otherwise he would have simply faked another copy.
4. This is a lame charge to discredit Joseph’s first vision account. It also isn’t accurate. Joseph’s contemporaries in Palmyra reported that he attended meetings and considered joining but never did after the vision. In the mid 1820′s, Pomeroy Tucker, someone hostile to Joseph in Palmyra, attested that Joseph joined the Methodist probationary class in Palmyra but soon “withdrew from the class” without being converted; announcing that “all the churches [were] on a false foundation.” (Pomeroy Tucker, Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism)
5. And the 8 other witnesses lifted the plates, turned the pages and felt the engravings. For example, John Whitmer said, “I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them.” He also reaffirmed his testimony on his deathbed. You can read other accounts at http://www.moroni10.com/witnesses/golden_plates.html
6. Paul boasted in 2 Corinthians 11. You must really think poorly of Paul. Moses was banned from the Promised Land for boasting of his power. I guess Moses doesn’t fit your definition of a prophet either. Furthermore, the boasting listed on that website only gives second hand accounts from people giving their perceptions of him. Not direct quotes. If someone is hostile to a person, any accomplishment that person lists will seem boastful. Joseph stood by his followers, gave people the shirt off his back, and died to help protect his followers. A pathological narcissist wouldn’t do that.
And incidentally, Jeremiah had several prophecies not happen. Jonah’s prophecy of Nineveh being destroyed didn’t happen. And most of Isaiah’s prophecies haven’t happened. So by your reasoning they aren’t prophets either, unless prophets from 3000 years ago exempt?
Maybe you should get some better sources for information on Mormonism, preferably from a source who’s livelihood isn’t entirely dependent on producing antiMormon material. Or from someone who doesn’t have a political ax to grind with the LDS Church.
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LikeDislikeJanice,
Axe to grind?
You’re right about one thing..Whether it’s Paul or Joseph Smith or Mohamed or Jehovah or Ganesh…Every religion is based on myth:
These myths make some people stand taller and act braver when they’re scared silly or in doubt.
These same myths allow still others to justify making war and doing unspeakable things to their neighbors on THIS planet
Some simply don’t need religion to be valiant or compassionate.
It’s a lot harder..but it’s a lot more honest at the end of the day
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LikeDislikeWhy did man create religion in the first place? Because he yearns for the truth about existance. The only truth out there is that man will NEVER know any real truth about existance, because we are just animals who inhabit a very small rock in this vast multiverse. Yet the human mind just keeps looking for answers.
Mormanism, however, isn’t even a religion. It’s a CANCER that infects people and never lets go. Just like how the polygamists have dozens of children, it spreads rapidly and corrupts poor, innocent people.
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LikeDislikeYou only give links to Mormon websites leaving your credibility in question… All accounts I have read on other websites state that Joseph Smith was the only one who steadfastly claimed to have actually touched the plates… all others flip-flopped between touching them and only seeing them with “spirit eyes”… show the plates to the world and people will beat a path to your door… Maybe you should look at some other sources of information other than that supplied by the Mormons…
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LikeDislikeSo Kelly only leaves Mormon website links, but at least there are links. You give your account of what you have read but the links to back it up are strangely absent.
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LikeDislikeMy question is this… Do you believe in the Ark of the Covenant? Where is it? How about Noah’s Ark? Is is that hard to believe that God (who can create the EARTH) can make a few metal plates come and go?
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LikeDislikeWhen Mitt Romney started being seriously considered as a Presidential candidate, I started wondering about his Mormon faith. If everyone in the US were to investigate his faith, he wouldn’t get many votes. It’s easy to see why lying comes so easy to him. His flip flopping on every issue is even more apparent. That’s what the Mormon faith is all about. I can’t believe Christians take him seriously.
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LikeDislikeThen why does a reliable source that is a Mormon, active within the Mormon church, tell of lying amongst the hierarchy of the Mormon church. I just read this. And, he did say that Joseph Smith was arrested, tried, and convicted of fraud for “glass looking”/ Document from that time were just found, proving this assertion.
And, how convenient for Joseph Smith to just happen to find these “gold plated, along with, conveniently, a way to decipher, and translate them. Then he just happens to LOSE them! What kind of idiot loses something of such supposed importance, and value? A LOT of your Mormon teachings go directly AGAINST what is taught in the Bible! Like this ” Baptism of the Dead”. The Bible says you die, then there’s the Judgement. It also mentions prohibition against communicating with spirits! You cannot communicate with the dead, as they sleep until the resurrection, and Judgement. Therefore you cannot teach them, and have them decide whether, or not, to accept these teachings. This is communicating with spirits, which is prohibited! You DO NOT die then BECOME A god! There is ONLY ONE GOD! There are no secret hand motions/signs, or phrases you say to gain entry into Heaven. You don’t buy your way into Heaven. A man does not give his wife permission to enter Heaven. Wearing special underwear with pagan symbols on them doesn’t protect you, or get you entry into heaven. The list goes on for a LONG ways! Read your Bible,(NOT the King James Version), the New International Version is preferred. Throw away the Book of Mormon as it is Blasphemous fairytale fiction made up by a con man!
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LikeDislikeWe know that early Christians practiced baptist of the Dead as mentioned by Paul the apostle in his first epistle to the Corinthians 15:29. In reiterating the resurrection he asks why are we baptizing for the dead if the dead rise not?
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LikeDislikeChrist himself was baptized to fulfill all righteousness despite his having no sin. Those who die with out baptism need it too.
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LikeDislikethat was some thing I don’t get is if there dead it means NOTHING.
Moses wasn’t banned from the promised land because he boasted… First, Moses disobeyed a direct command from God. God had commanded Moses to speak to the rock. Instead, Moses struck the rock with his staff. Second, Moses did this in front of all the Israelites. Such a public example of direct disobedience could not go unpunished. Moses’ punishment was that he would not be allowed to enter the Promised Land (Numbers 20:12). you talk about getting facts straight and you clearly didnt read about this in the bible at all. you probably just blindly believed your mormon (false) “prophits.” Good day sir.
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LikeDislikeThe opening post here isn’t actually about LDS beliefs, which are what they are. The opening post is about the author’s multi faceted hatred of Joseph Smith and refusal to believe that Joseph was telling the truth about anything. The author is free to believe whatever she wants, but to say that the opening post is about mormon beliefs is not intellectually accurate because the entire focus is on Janice’s accusations regarding the beliefs. If the author wanted to call it a “crazy belief” that Joseph translated plates, then THAT would constitute a belief that the author finds “crazy” (and the focus would be on the belief and not the author’s vastly expanded opinions of it). Joseph didn’t join any church after his vision either, but if Joseph wasn’t telling the truth, then why the spray of hate Janice? It comes down to belief anyway. Believe whatever you want.
The most obvious point which shows J. Smith to have been a charlatan was his “interpretation” of the “book of Abraham” It was totally false. He had no ability to translate hieroglyphics which was possible after the Rosetta Stone finally translated.Smith made up the whole thing. He also made up the BOM from his contemporaries belief about the native population and a book called View of the Hebrews which he essentially copied.
Some of my family members are Mormons and it make me doubt their very sanity certianly their intellect to follow such a con mans religion.
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LikeDislikeWow Kelly, just wow. You are really going to defend the handling of the missing pages? I wish there was a place I could hide out, without missionaries from every stripe wanting to enslave me or my family with their crap, until they all kill themselves.
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LikeDislikeIt amazes me how many Mormons are misinformed and ignorant of the true facts surrounding the origins of their religion and the supposed golden plates. It does not matter if J Smith was or wasn’t convicted. What is clear is that even before he supposedly met Moroni, he was a person who was inclined towards fanciful & magical notions. He was a early “new-ager”. He was into treasure hunting and claimed to be able to divine the location of buried treasure by peering at a magical stone in the bottom of his hat. Other persons did not view and certainly touch the golden plates at all. Smith expressly said that this was not possible because anyone without the Urrim & Thumin stones would be destroyed by the plates. Smith was a clever con man who always came up with an answer for everything. Conveniently, Moroni wanted the plates back when he was finished. The Mormons at my door love pointing out to me how reminiscent of the Bible the book of Mormon sounds. By this they mean that it sounds like the King James translation of the Bible. Plenty of “and it came unto pass that” etc. That is in fact a strong pointer to the fact that it is a fraud. The KJV sounds like it does because of the time and place in which it was translated. There was no good reason why Smith, a 19th Century East Coast American, should translate to that sound unless he was deliberately trying to create a “holy” book that would appear to the gullible to be a sequel to the Bible. Additionally, to accept the book of Mormon as scripture, one has to have complete and utter faith in its miraculous origins. One has to believe that in a singular time and place Smith came upon a volume, containing books by various authors, for which he was by the use of magical stones of which he was conveniently possessed the sole interpreter. By contrast whilst Christians and Jews believe that the content of the Bible is inspired by God, they do not believe that it came to us by miraculous or magical means. They accept that the Bible is in fact not a book but a collection of 66 books scribed at various times and places by various human writers in the same way as books in general are normally written. Biblical scholars can point to manuscripts and to a history of scholarship and translation that delivered these books to us. Inspiration aside, the story of the bible is a mundane a non miraculous story. The translation was a collaborative work of many, not explainable by the claimed supernatural experience of one. Indian Vedic scriptures have a corresponding scholarly history, but the Islamic Koran suffers from the same disability as to origins as the book of Mormon. It was all said to have been supernaturally conveyed to the prophet Mahommed. There is a good adage. “Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence”. The explanations for the advent of the Koran and the book of Mormon are “extraordinary claim” completely devoid of “extraordinary evidence”.
I see no reason why if we believe that Abraham talked to God, or that Moses was visited by God, that Mohommad, or Joseph Smith could not be.
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LikeDislikeIt amazes me, Brian F., that non-mormons can tell us more about our religion than we can. I would think that we know quite a bit more than you concerning our own beliefs.
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LikeDislikeJoseph Smith was 14 when he had his vision. If I remember my biology that is the perfect pubescent age of screw, screw, screw. No wonder they made polygamy the basis of their cult and reduced women to a subjected gender & turned them into sex objects, not that the christians “small c deliberate”) and Jews did much better. Actually of the 3 monotheistic religions Islam is the best for women. Mohammed decreed that women cud own property. It is exampled in Spanish (Spain having been conquered 700 years by the Moors–the northern Arabs) and the reason for the double family names: Maria Rodriguez Gonzales. The first family name is the father’s and the second is the mother’s father’s name. Of course, if the woman became a widow she had property to support her and her children. Arab widows are not supposed to re-marry. It is common in Mexico that the 3 stages of womanhood is practiced by the words: Virgin, Mother and Santa.
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LikeDislikeMormonism, has been lying to the world,
Joseph Smith used lies to cut in for the girls.
His bed of lies with brimstone suffer glow,
Total torment wherever he goes.
Mormonism, carry’s lies for me and you,
Lies cut up God’s Holy Word thru and thru.
True Christians follow not this whore scam,
To endless sorrow like Smith in Satan’s hand.
Mormon, what good do you think you do?
You want me to follow lies the same as you.
This counterfeiting evil your smiles are cold
You will never be god no matter what lies you’re told.
Mormonism, how you teach with hidden lust,
May your temple fall and return to the dust.
May all the world forget you ever stood,
And may all the world see your lies no good.
Mormonism,
You worthless cemetery!
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LikeDislikeHow would you feel if someone spoke of your family member the way you speak of Joseph Smith? Why can’t you all just get along? You never met Joseph Smith so how can you pass judgement? How would you feel is someone passed judgement without knowing you?
I would just like to say that it makes me sad to read some of the things posted here. Joseph Smith is part of my family and part of many others family. You shouldn’t speak ill of people whom you do not know. Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.
Why not quit attacking the LDS religion and go about your way? How does harboring so much hate not make you sick? Let people believe what they would like. There is no reason to be rude to them for being themselves. I am sure you all are lovely people when you want to be.
I would like to issue you all a challenge start being nice to everyone and stop judging them off their religion. It’s very hurtful to read rude things, be attacked for your religion and hear people speak so ill of your family. Love one another. And let your hatred go. Life is way to short be harboring so much hate. So just let it go if you don’t want to be LDS then don’t know one is going to make you be. If you don’t agree with something then you don’t have to, but leave those alone that do want to believe it.
I go to church because it makes me feel good and makes me happy. Why don’t you go and see what it is all about you may have your mind changed. How would you feel if people did to you what you are doing to them?
TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED!
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LikeDislikeMountain Meadows Massacre – enough said…
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LikeDislikeMountain Meadows Massacre did happen and those responsible will be judged for their crimes when they stand before Christ as we all eventually will. Mormons are human like anybody else. There are many instances in the Bible of unrighteous tragedies similar to the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Some in Christs own lineage, yet we still believe him to be the Son of God.
Here’s crazy belief that is held by Mormons. They actually believe that a woman in the first century gave birth as a virgin to a human being who was the living embodiment of God. They even believe this god/man came back to life after his death.
Mormonism is crazy. So is every other religion.
It’s perfectly fine to pass judgement on Mormons and Joseph Smith. There are whole lot of people passing judgement on your superstitions too.
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LikeDislikeWhen Christ said judge not that ye be not judged, he said that we would be judged by that same judgement we judge. I guess the point is we should be careful and try to judge righteously.
To Paramedicgirl.
Mormonism teaches that true Christian Churches are an abomination to the Lord. Mormonism deceives and Para, you have been deceived. Smith condemned the true church to bring in the false church that the Bible warned us about. Prophets pointed to Jesus. The Mormon false prophets points to life on Mars and the Sun which is false and condemns Mormonism as worthless falsehood to gain eternal life. Remember it takes one false prophecy to prove a false prophet. So yes I do know Smith by his prophecies that failed. He’s a Liar that tricks girls into his brimstone bed.
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LikeDisliketwo words – which two would YOU choose ??
“snake-oil salesman”
or
“sexual deviant”
(maybe both)
Shut up you shouldn’t disrespect a church or religion your not a member of ass wipes so shut up
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LikeDislikeI’m a member of that church and he did not lure women into his bed and he was not a theif and how would you know
You would have to be really old so you don’t know what your talking about
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LikeDislikeSo Damiem, your a member of that church. Look at the beginning of your comment that starts off with the big (I). The second sentence you start off with (you). So we have the big I and the little u. Mormon’s has this strange Smith spirit that does this.
Smith say’s, (I) know there’s people living on Mars that are six feet tall and look like Quakers. Then Brigham Young mouth’s off that there’s folks living on the Sun, (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 271) These people are Liar’s that Atheist uses to get the true God out of our World.
I don’t need to be old to see a false prophet when today we see these prophecies failed. Smith and Young are indeed Liar’s.
Why do Mormon’s honor Liar’s and work hard to cover-up this Sin and then condemn true Christians as Liar’s who doesn’t cover-up with them?
Smith created a New God that is flesh. A new Jesus that is Satan’s brother. A new Mormon christian that is not an abomination like the old.
Have you told your Mommy that you are here? Folks are here with their true Jesus and God which is Spirit and truth. She might spank you or have your false church shame you.
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LikeDislikeThen by this logic you should go tell several prominent rabbis that have read the BOM and recognize that it was written by Jews in ages past.
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LikeDislikeThere is evidence just look at all the ruins in south america.
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LikeDislikeHow come the people defending this fairy tale relgion don’t admit that joseph smith started the religion because it was profitable? That’s the true meaning of being there just to bilk others out of their money. The church continues doing that today, by making you “more worthy” based on how much money you pay into the church. I am constantly amazed that Scientology is considered a dangerous religion, but this one isn’t.
They stockpile food, not to be of help to anyone, but because they are constantly in wait for the “end” to come. Guess what will happen to all that food, at “the end”? It will be just as unused as it is now. You’ll die just like the rest of us. You’ll also probably have it pointed out to you that you’ve been spending your entire life being fooled.
As far as respecting other religions, as someone innacurately declared, they believe that theirs is the only “true” one, and act accordingly. All of those unwanted baptisms of people without their consent? Extreme proof of their inability to show or feel respect for the religions of others. You don’t baptise people unwillingly into your religion under the false belief that that will get them into heaven. What slimy arrogance.
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LikeDislikeMany of you are here purely to spew hatred at others beliefs. People are allowed to believe what ever they want. Would you make fun of a blind man because he thought the sky was yellow? If he just happened to have faith that the sky was a different color than most would say? Because no person could prove to him as an individual that the sky was blue. So let him have what some of you would call ignorance. I say it’s bliss; and as a member of the lds church, I can say that I truly believe in my religion. And the beauty of it all is that none of your beliefs have to coincide with mine, and that’s fine; just try to keep your bigotry to a dull roar.
Okay, I’m a Mormon so I’ll just clear up a lot of common misconceptions about our religion. I am not saying this because I think you should all become Mormons imediantly. I am just simply clearing up the stupid rumors that are not true
Now in reply to Stacy E. and a whole lot of others out there: NO, this Church is not for profit.
Yes, I will admit that we paying Tithing (10% of our income we pay to the church)but it’s not like we are forced to. It is still OUR choice. Second, WHAT IS WRONG WITH FOOD STORAGE!!!!! I’m sorry but I have to say it is freaking nice when you run out of your favorite salad dressing and there is extra sitting downstairs. And YES, we use that food storage. It doesn’t just sit there for forever. And thirdly, who says it’s for the end of the world? I could be used for anything. A wild fire going on, maybe a flood, economy crash, maybe even a war. Who knows! Everybody has heard of the great Economy crash that happened in Germany during the world war. Well that could happen in America to and we keep food for things like that.
Now for the baptisms. I’ll admit we do baptize people for the dead. But we don’t baptize them into our religion. We don’t and never ever will force somebody into our religion, It is purely their choice. And second, we also believe that the person can not accept or deny the baptism it if they wanted.
Another common thing has been popping op too. This whole, “we become gods in the future thing”. Alright this is a little tricky to explain. First off, we believe that we are God’s children. Meaning that we were created in the image of God (says so in the scriptures!) And so the child of a deer is a deer, and the child of a cow is a cow, and so the child of a god is a god. That doesn’t make us THE God just A god. HUGE difference. We won’t get our own little church and nobody will praise us or anything like that. We become a spirit in the likeness of our Father which is in heaven.THAT’S IT! So I hate it when people say that we think we become “gods”. It’s more like an angel than anything. And yes we believe that we get our own little planet, but it’s not like anybody lives on that planet. It’s like getting a house. Nobody else lives there, you don’t “rule” it. It’s just you so you can live in what you think is your “paradise” you could say.
Now, I am sick and tired of hearing all this ranting a hatred towards Joseph Smith. Everyone says that “it is completely unbelievable and something like that could never happen, and no one just finds golden plates and no angels just appear!” REALLY? first off, stop hating, you don’t know him, he doesn’t know you, so why are you so upset? And second off,something like that is what we call a miracle. If you say and swear and insist that Joseph Smith was a fraud because what he did was impossible. Then I guess you could say Jesus was a fraud too, because everything he did seemed pretty impossible. So stop telling us Mormons that we are stupid and being deceived and that this whole church was set up for “gain” and everything else. If there is any religion that believes that Jesus preformed miracles and rose from the dead then you don’t have any right to call Joseph Smith a fraud too. Unless you have hard, physical evidence, that is COMPLETELY TRUE (not a rumor or something you heard on the internet) then keep your mouth shut and get on with life!
And as a second note with this whole Joseph Smith being arrested. Well, news flash, every single Mormon knows that Joseph Smith was arrested, it’s not a new thing believe me. However the charges that he was arrested against were false. Now before you jump up and think that is just a stupid deception they played on us Mormons consider this. There are so many people who hate Joseph Smith TODAY. Look at some of the messages above and you will see countless hating on him and calling him a fraud. If people are still like this TODAY, then think about it back then. Of coarse they wanted to arrest him! It seems like people STILL want to arrest him. Yet no ones has hard proof that he was a fraud!! The charges he was arrested for WERE FALSE. (P.S. “declared himself king of the world”? Pfft, what kind of joke is that? That is something little kids say when playing a game. And no, he never said that. (at least that I know of…(I refuse to be a hypracit here, I said no one knows him and that includes me))
Now for the baptisms. I’ll admit we do baptize people for the dead. But we don’t baptize them into our religion. We don’t and never ever will force somebody into our religion, It is purely their choice. And second, we also believe that the person can not accept or deny the baptism it if they wanted.
Why we do things like baptism for the dad is because we go with the doctrines from the bible that say a person can’t enter heaven unless they have been baptized. So it is our belief that there are souls in…I guess you could say spirit “prison” but that is not the world I’m looking for. Anyways, so we do baptisms for them.
Okay, now this one is a must! JOSEPH SMITH WAS NOT A POLYGAMIST!! First off, it was Brigham Young that started it NOT Joseph Smith, shesh! Second of all think of the times of when this took place. It happened just after the REALLY long trek across the united states to Utah. Several people died during that trek and most of them were men (taking account that a few wars took place around here and only men were allowed in those wars, and men were often the ones that pulled the handcarts because they were stronger than women) So what do you have? Few men and a lot of women who at the time, were not allowed to own or work their own land. SO! Polygamy was so that a lot of women didn’t starve to death on the streets! but now things have changed drastically and we don’t practice it anymore. Let me repeat that last statement WE DON’T PRACTICE IT ANYMORE!!! NADA, NONE, AUCUN, KEINE!
And to answer Brian F. I don’t recall Joseph being a “magician” or treasure seeker. When, where, and why was that stated? Please, I would like to know. Also, what do you mean he was deliberately trying to make it sound like a “holy book”. Did it never occur to you that it maybe WAS a holy book and that is why it sounds like that? And yes, I do fully believe in it’s organs. I have physically been to each and everyone of the places listed in the Book of Mormon (my dad likes to travel) and everything fits. Every single mountain listed is in it’s exact place. Even remains of the civilization talked about in the scriptures. Now tell me how a 19th Century East Coast American, who has never taken foot out of America can know all of that? Even if it was sent to him by letters from others, Mexico wasn’t really all that inhabited and examined well enough at that time to produce all those facts.
No, not all of the witnesses of the golden plates left the church. Plain and simple
Now to answer Richard about the Arc of the Covenant and Noah’s ark…Yes, we fully believe in the arc of the covenant. Actually, my dad thinks that is still on the earth today (undiscovered) but that is just his opinion not the Mormons so don’t interrogate them on that. And yes, we believe that Noah and his arc did exist. In fact, I am not sure if this fully true or not but it is said that his ship landed somewhere in Turkey but *shrug* I don’t know for sure.
Now last but not least. Yes, we do think that we are the only true religion but let me ask you something…What relation thinks that their’s ISN’T the only true one!!! Every religion believes that. Even Scientology (is that what it is called?) believes that every other religion is false. But besides that, who knows what religion is the true church? That’s right, NO ONE! It is completely up to you to decide which one you think is the “true” church. And if you think it is Scientology, by all means it is Scientology! Religion is not about what your parents believe, what your leaders believe, or what anybody else believes. It is what YOU believe. That is why they call it a faith. So yes, I think that Mormonism is the one and only true church. But that doesn’t mean that you have to think that too. In fact, One of my best friends “religion” is contradictions. She loves things that contradict each other and that is what she believes is right.
OKAY! sorry for all that ranting and blah blah blah “be a good person” stuff!
Now I would completely understand if you think any of what I told you was “wrong” or what not, and I am NOT here to preach. I just want to establish the truth from lies about Mormonism okay! DON’T HATE ME! But please don’t go spreading around a bunch of rumors and gossip about ANY church unless you know with 100% certainty that it is true okay. Thanks!
And as a side note- WHAT THE CRAP IS UP WITH FALSE PROPHETS POINTING TO MARS AND ALL THAT!!! I’VE NEVER HEARD OF ANYTHING LIKE THAT AND I’VE BEEN A MORMON FOR 15 YEARS!!
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LikeDislikeJoseph Smith married many women some of whom were married to other men: Ahem Adultery!
Emma Hale
Fanny Alger
Lucinda Morgan Harris
Louisa Beaman
Zina Huntington Jacobs
Presendia Huntington Buell
Agnes Coolbrith
Sylvia Sessions Lyon
Mary Rollins Lightner
Patty Bartlett Sessions
Marinda Johnson Hyde
Elizabeth Davis Durfee
Sarah Kingsley Cleveland
Delcena Johnson
Eliza R. Snow
Sarah Ann Whitney
Martha McBride Knight
Ruth Vose Sayers
Flora Ann Woodworth
Emily Dow Partridge
Eliza Maria Partridge
Almera Johnson
Lucy Walker
Sarah Lawrence
Maria Lawrence
Helen Mar Kimball
Hanna Ells
Elvira Cowles Holmes
Rhoda Richards
Desdemona Fullmer
Olive Frost
Melissa Lott
Nancy Winchester
Fanny Young
34 Women he married, use Google it dude, or better yet get a library card and turn on your mind. You’re being fooled
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LikeDislikeChristians and Mormons fighting over who has the best invisible friends, and the best book of nonsense…
How slowly the human race evolves…
“Religion is not about what your parents believe, what your leaders believe, or what anybody else believes. It is what YOU believe. That is why they call it a faith…” Kaitlin McEverly
They call it faith because it is based on claims umsupported by evidence. Personal faith is the ideas you choose to pretend are knowledge, although you know rationally that you have no grounds to actually assume them to be correct. Basically everything about your life where you can confidently assert knowledge, is based on science. Everything you want to believe is true, but cannot demonstrate, or provide any evidence for the reality of, is what you are calling faith.
First to answer those who retort the name, I am a rational moralist among other things.
Faith is, as you stated the belief in what can’t be proven…at least at the moment. However, you make it sound as if faith is only practiced by the loony. Faith is not knowledge…it’s faith (apologies for the redundant definition).
Faith is practiced everyday by every person. You get in your car and drive to work with faith that you will arrive there safely and not dead in a huddled mess. A farmer or gardener preps, plant, and waters with faith that the seeds will in fact grow. (there is no proof that this time won’t be a dud crop, there can’t be till they grow and show themselves not to be.)
And a tremendous amount of faith is found in those who many claim are the most rational of all: scientists. In fact, there are teams of scientists working on string theory and the equation for everything who, dare I say it, have faith that they haven’t been slaving away for some ridiculous waste of time thought experiment that doesn’t actually help anyone understand anything.
I was a bit verbose, but I hoped to demonstrate my point through examples…Religious faith is the same thing just aimed toward what we can not test right now. How can you truly say there is no all powerful entity out there…there are particles that react to future stimuli for crying out loud. (fyi just look up weird quantum effects and particles)
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LikeDislikeAs usual, a lot of stuff out of people’s heads. VERY LITTLE actual scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
160+ years ago man suddenly needed better equipping and completing?
Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Once and for all means nothing is coming later.
Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Hmmmm… Kind of hard to mis-understand.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
No religious authority outside of the Mormon church gives the Book of Mormon even minimal canon.
Hey guys, ive gotten sick of reading these comments so, if u want to discriminate against my church, so be it, but really please dont make fun of it and judge us. Feel free to judge us after u have actually read the book of Mormon. U have to have a open heart and let urself have faith in the fact that heavenly father will answer ur Prayers. If this religion is so crazy then why does the base of our religion (Book of Mormon) bring People endless happiness and peace to our lives? I strongly suggest u all read it, it changed my life and i see it change others too, ive seen the hand of christ in my life and in others. This religion has been restored to the earth for this time on earth.
Ive been testified to that this church is true from the spirit and from an unbelievable expirience of mine. I know i havent been brainwashed into this religion, i know that this church is true and i invite everyone to read the book of Mormon and enjoy the contagious peace and love from it. I beg u all to soften ur hearts and open them for anything to come, u WILL feel ur saviors endless love for u, its the best thing ever, it really is, please, its just amazing
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LikeDislikePersonaly… If you want to know the truth behind any religion i would study and search to know if what i am saying is true. LDS people believe in the bible and the book of mormon. The two scriptures go together nicely… Dont believe me? Well try reading both and i am sure you will get the same message. Also in the scriptures it tells us that there will slways be opposition. Look at all of the dislikes on this page… I can see that many of you have not researched enough. Its obvious that you are making things up. So if you really want to know the truth… Get a book of mormon… The missionarries give them out for free. And stop saying things that arent true just because you dont know.. Thank you.
You people that believe in this nonsense are all completely retarded! Now to respond to the person who said that “you can believe what you want and it doesnt affect anyone else”. Ok well what about gays who want to get married? Anti gay marriage laws are a direct result of religion. What about the racist writings in the book of Mormon? Up until the 1970′s black people were taught as lower than whites in the Mormon faith. And I imagine most Mormons still fill that way. What about all of the idiot right wing candidates that Mormons elect in the state of Utah? Anyone who has any sort of intellect living there has to suffer through stupid laws because of these religious right wing politicians.
So dont tell me your religious beliefs dont affect anyone else. They do a great deal.
Now as far as Mormonism goes. Clearly it is a bunch of B.S. Joseph Smith was a con man and anyone who believes him is gullible and silly to anyone with a brain. With that said though, any other religious people bashing on the Mormons here is equally as silly. The Bible is full of just as much unrealistic crap as the book of Mormon. There is no proof to back up ANY supernatural claims made in any of these religious texts.
Its funny how Angels or God only visit all of these “prophets” when they are alone somewhere huh?? lmfao. Grow up people!! Science is the answer to all of lifes mysteries, not invisible people in the sky and con men preachers!!
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LikeDislikeMaybe the people who come here defending their “religion” should try reading the real Bible instead of their pathetic Book of Bullshit. The real Bible clearly states that there is ONE GOD. Joseph the Pedophile had such an overwhelming ego that he declared all men will become Gods after they die. And of course women are useless baby machines that will only get to heaven by way of some useless man. If mor(m)ons are so superior, why are so many of them closet drunks, chain smokers, pedophiles, adulterers, wife beaters, drug users, and generalized arrogant pricks? You don’t sound so great to me.
Oh, and Ha Ha-Joseph the con man tried joining the Methodist church after declaring his pathetic religion the “only one”. Assheads.
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LikeDislikeGood Lord, it is scary how misinformed so many of you are about your own church. Someone stated that Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy? COME ON PEOPLE. He married over 30 women, with several of them already married to other men. He married two 14 year olds when he was 37 or 38 years old.
The charges against him were not false. He was charged for fraudantly claiming he could find treasure on people’s property with his magic stone. The same magic stone he held up to his eye when he put his head inside a hat to translate the book of mormon.
Later, he was charged with ordering the destruction of a printing press that was exposing his polygamy. This was the town’s printing press, OPERATED BY MORMONS. The man that was exposing him for his lies was his former scribe. There was no anti mormon activity going on. No persecution. The mob that came for him was full of husband and fathers of women and girls that he had propositioned. And whoever said he went to his death willingly, LMAO. He had a revolver and shot 2 or 3 of the men coming up the stairs of the jail. Your church even lies about his last words, taking out the Masonic distress call he shouted out.
You guys seriously need to do some research. Your church has whitewashed and changed so many things. The Book of Mormon was declared to be the most correct book on this planet, yet it was changed hundreds and hundreds of times after that statement was made.
You need to read about the Book of Abraham scroll.
You need to read about the Kinderhook Plates.
Joseph Smith was a fraud, a criminal, an evil, EVIL man.
Brigham Young was 50 times worse.
Every single thing I have stated is easy to verify with simple research.
Religion is a very personal matter. I believe, as to 90% of my friends, that a Christian does not judge other Religions, beliefs or people. That isn’t what we are on this Earth to do.
We are here to learn, grow and use our free agency to determine our Eternal life.
I feel that Heavenly Father is the ONLY judge of these matters. We need to work on our own souls, help others when we are privileged and honored enough to do so, and show respect for all persons and beliefs.
It is my belief that Heavenly Father is our one true God and that his son, Jesus Christ is our true Savior AND Prophet. I say these things in the name of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, Amen.
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